Kyle Payne, author of the blog The Road Less Traveled (ha, I wrote “roach” when I first typed “road” — Freudian slip), has pleaded guilty as the result of a plea bargain to felony attempted burglary in the second degree and two counts of invasion of privacy, a serious misdemeanor. What actually happened was that, as a resident adviser at his university, Kyle was “helping” one of the women under his charge who was drunk and unconscious — probably putting her to bed — and he sexually assaulted her and photographed and filmed himself doing it. He was arrested in February after investigators found the film files on his confiscated computer.
In May, Kyle wrote a post in his blog called “Reaching Men,” where he says this:
If we are serious about rape prevention – in other words, not rape avoidance, defense, or something along those lines – we need to begin with where rape begins, in men’s decisions to assert dominance over women through sexuality. Ultimately we are talking about subverting patriarchy as a system, but of course, it is largely men’s choices that maintain that system. We are talking about taking rape away from men, along with their unearned advantages in this society, and of course, their unjust (as if there were any other kind) dominance over women.
This is just too scary to really put into words. If YOU, Kyle, were serious about rape prevention, YOU WOULDN’T HAVE RAPED THAT WOMAN. How dare you continue to write in support of women’s autonomy and freedom from rape from this objective observer stance? How dare you insult your readers and women everywhere with your two-faced lies?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Masculinity in this society is SCREWED UP, with patriarchy and dudes like Kyle to blame.
Even though I don’t know what to say about this incident and cannot express how reading about this made me feel like my insides had been scooped out, I do know this much: I hope Kyle Payne never blogs in the name of feminism again, never comes in contact with any women ever again, and generally never attempts to act as if he’s really on my side. Because it’s quite fucking blatantly apparent that he’s not on my side.
Get the fuck out of my movement, Kyle, and stay out.
_________
Other people who are posting about this:
- Renegade Evolution
- Ginmar
- Nine Deuce
- Pisaquari
- Eleanors Trousers
- Fetch Me My Axe
- Uncool
- Miss Nomered
- A Secret Chord
- Don’t Ask Me, I’m Just a Girl
- The Mind of Genevieve
- Galling Gala
- the Strangest Alchemy
- Outis
- Blog of the Moderate Left
- Shakesville
- The F Word
- Littoral Mermaid
- Jezebella
- I Shame the Matriarchy
—————–
My heart goes out to this woman and any other of Kyle’s victims. You are in my thoughts.
I’ve sent him a few messages telling him I think he ought to take down his “feminist” content, but he’s a fucking asshole and refuses to do so. I think we ought to try to orchestrate some kind of comment-writing campaign to try to force him to take his site down.
Good idea. I think he has moderated comments, which means it’ll be easy-ish for him to delete them all before they get posted, but it’s probably still worth it. On each feminist post, I’m writing “Please delete this post. You do not speak for feminism or anti-sexist activism.” Simple and direct.
I just cannot believe that even after he was arrested for sexual assault, he continued to write this stuff. Like, if I were publicly exposed to be such a huge fucking hypocrite who actively hates women, I would probably stop writing this blog. I guess no one said that rapists are rational, though.
Did he actually respond? morbidly curious as to what he has to say for himself.
He didn’t respond, but I’m going to keep up the comments. They stay up for a bit, then he deletes them.
I commented and it’s still there.
I wish he was right here in front of me so I could punch him.
Which posts are you all commenting on? I posted at Why I Hate Fun and Reaching Men. The reason I’m asking is that he’s a WordPress blogger, but the comments I’m leaving aren’t appearing on my “My Comments” section of the Dashboard, much like what happens when my comments at Rage (for example) haven’t been approved to appear. And he’s unlikely to approve them, given this whole situation and who he is.
ETA: Yeah, I just logged out of WordPress and checked Why I Hate Fun, and my comment wasn’t there.
What do we do now? I really don’t think he’ll be approving any of these soon.
First of all, if he hasn’t been convicted, then it’s an “alleged” rape.
Second, if his message is correct, it matters not that he was incapable of living up to the standard he wrote about.
–Ray
He parrots Dworkin and that makes him a feminist while he assaults women and uses porn. Yeah right.
That makes him a predatory creep.
And another thing…YO Raymond. When you plead guilty to a charge that means you admit guilt. Criminy, the bringers of the Fresh Manly Wisdom are just wearing out my patience today.
Ahahaha, Raymond, you are such an idiot. Try this little thing we do around here next time you want to comment here: it’s called reading.
Goddamn, a rape apologist. I’m so shocked.
I was posting on his about page. My comments read something like, “How dare you keep pretending to be a feminist. You’re a fucking RAPIST. GET THE FUCK OFF THE INTERNET.”
Or something nice and polite like that.
BTW – It seems like the comment barrage is picking up steam. Let’s keep it up. He can choose to delete our comments, but he sees them.
Mine was on his “about” page too. It’s gone now, as has his blogroll link to The Burning Times, which I asked him to remove.
I told him the phrase “worthless piece of shit” was too good for him and I hope he suffers for what he did.
How much do you bet he’s collecting all our comments to put in a post he’s going to write about “oh poor me, those nasty feminists have turned on me – they showed their true colours etc etc”?
Oh hey Raymond? Yeah, in case you’re not feeling stupid enough already…dude ADMITTED it. I understand others pointed this out, but wow…you really are a moron. A sanctimonious one too…so when priest ‘fail’ to live up to their own alleged standards and abuse kids if their message is correct we shouldn’t care? puh-lease.
So those of us who aren’t Raymond..
I want to scream in the faces of anyone who’s ever told me feminism is irrelevant/I just have no sense of humour. See, NO, I laugh when something’s funny and misogyny ISN’T.
I want to fight something, someone, to have a focus for this misery, to turn the sadness into an anger I can use to fight…but I just feel bereft. When I walked into the office and saw my bosses…nice enough guys but who expect me to laugh along, and not mind their ‘women are sexual objects’ view since it’s less in your face, more ‘refined’ than in other forums…I wanted to shake them, to scream “THIS is why your jokes are not funny”.
My boyfriend is coming over tonight…I love him, I really do…we’re happy and things between us are great…but there’s been this cloud around my head all fucking day…how do I explain how sad, how miserable I feel, how frustrating it is when this is reality that people can still EXPECT ME TO LAUGH AT SEXISM? That it affects me in ways I can’t just shake off…
My friend at wrote a poem of violence within the house and ended with the line “and my heart quietly folded”. I know the feeling.
ooh…it took out the link…it’s dredgirl at f*&kthepostpolitical, in the blogroll of this site
It always has been interesting to me that people choose to campaign against the thing that they are most vulnerable to. Does it make them feel more in control of their impulses, or are they overcompensating to cover something in their own lives?
A number of people who are talking about this are saying that they believe Kyle Payne to have knowingly and willingly sought out fields and job positions where he would have his choice of victims. Obviously, being an RA in a coed dorm would be any rapist’s dream. The same, for Kyle, goes for rape victim advocacy and any other women’s rights activism.
In my opinion, he wants to be a teacher (at least he’s not looking to teach minors — his degree is in adult education) because it will allow him to be able to profess these same pseudo-feminist philosophies to a group of willing and essentially captive listeners all the while hoping that his position of relative power will enable him to coerce all the young women he wants into having “sex” with him for the grade they want. I believe he entered into that plea bargain, which prevents him from being labeled a sex offender at this point because he was never actually charged with the sexual assault, because he knew he would be unable to get into any paid teaching gig if he was a sex offender. And now, if he gets a job teaching, he’ll have unlimited access to the victims of his dreams.
He makes me sicker every time I think about him.
I think it is standard “wolf in sheep’s clothing” predator behavior.
Authoritarian abusers frequently become LEOs, teachers, Priests, Scout leaders, coaches, and any number of things that put them in close proximity to their prey.
They are glorified as pillars of the community while they destroy the members of that community.
We know this perfectly well, and yet we make very little effort to screen them out of positions of power.
“I believe he entered into that plea bargain, which prevents him from being labeled a sex offender at this point because he was never actually charged with the sexual assault, because he knew he would be unable to get into any paid teaching gig if he was a sex offender.”
ding ding ding.
And he’s likely to get off with a slap on the wrist: it -can- mean up to five years in jail, but raise your hand if you think he’ll see the inside of a cell. And up to $7500 fine, which even if they throw it at him, I think it’s nothing to him–he posted the $11,300 bail right away and then flew straight off to a conference.
Even any kind of criminal record mars his job prospects, of course, but I expect he’s planning to charm his way to a continued career somehow, and it looks like it’s worked for him so far. creep creep creep CREEP.
btw, as a commenter noted to me, Ted Bundy was a rape crisis counselor early in his career, too.
Y’all are going to crucify me for saying this, but here’s the comment that tipped me off to trouble:
“We are talking about taking rape away from men, along with their unearned advantages in this society, and of course, their unjust (as if there were any other kind) dominance over women.”
That’s not his hard-earned opinion talking, that’s the propaganda he’s been trained to recite; his words ring hollow. And that’s troubling, because what kind of person advocates a reduction in his own power when he isn’t sincere about it? Only someone playing a confidence game does that, and con men are predators.
I’m not a feminist, not by any means. But I’m not some unthinking lout, either. I think women are precious, and need to be protected from the likes of Kyle Payne. Maybe you see that attitude as patronizing. Well, that’s okay, we’re all entitled to our opinions. In my favor, I’m about the last person who’d ever rape or abuse somebody.
But why can I say that? Why do I know that about myself? I know that about myself because I’ve been in enough dangerous scrapes that I’ve learned some things about my own character. I’ve learned that I am a stubborn, arrogant S.O.B. I’ve learned that I have a fierce and unyielding sense of honor that ends up pissing people off. I’ve learned that I’m an oak tree; I don’t bend much. And this stubborn, unyielding oak tree I’ve grown into doesn’t rape people, doesn’t abuse them, and sees women as something precious. For better or worse, that’s what I am.
Along with that, I’m also unswayed by this talk patriarchy, and male-dominated society, and unearned advantages. I deny that I’ve received unfair treatment on account of being male. You’re not going to sell me on feminism.
Now, I bring all this up because I think it points to an interesting question. On the one hand we have Kyle: a feminist sexual predator. On the other hand you have the Alamanach: a sexist who treats women with dignity and respect. Both people are paradoxical, but freedom to traffic in paradox is one of the neat things about being human. My question to the bunch of you: in your opinion, which of us is worse?
(By the way, I’m also curious why this post has “manhood” as a tag. Not much manliness in this story.)
I’ll agree that Kyle Payne is a predator and a con man, and I too believe that he had been planning this the whole time, probably from the start of his college career. I’ll bet a lot of money that the victim who got him into this month’s trouble is not the first of his victims.
However, alamanach, I am not about to give you cookies for not raping women. Not raping is a basic thing. You shouldn’t feel proud of yourself that you don’t rape — you should feel normal. Have you got anything more substantial to add to the conversation than patting yourself on the back for being a decent human being on some random blog?
What would make me really happy and slightly (though not much) more inclined to join in your self-congratulation is if you talked to your guy friends about not raping, not harassing, not assaulting, not stalking, not otherwise bothering women who make it clear that they want nothing to do with your guy friends (since women are so very, very precious in your perspective *vomits*). I’m not saying you have to get all feminist on their asses, but you can be an upstanding citizen in more arenas than on this blog (if you really are the stubborn SOB oak tree you say you are, which we all know is probably a huge lie anyway, because these is the ‘nets).
(”Manhood” as a tag is used here because “manhood” as we know it in this society is fucked. It’s not to say that this is an example of “good” manhood, but an example of what we call manhood at work.)
“Have you got anything more substantial to add to the conversation than patting yourself on the back for being a decent human being on some random blog?”
Yes, I’m asking which of the two of us you judge to be worse.
That is not adding to the conversation; that is asking me to participate in your self-congratulatory, masturbatory bullshit.
I refuse to judge you as anything in relation to Kyle Payne because I don’t fucking know you. Besides that, the only purpose that “judging you” (which I cannot do, because, again, I DON’T FUCKING KNOW YOU — for all I know, you’re as bad as Kyle Payne minus the feminist rhetoric) would serve in the long run is to make you feel okay about yourself. I’m not here to make you feel better.
You know, alamanach, a woman was raped. This is not cause for you to come to a feminist’s blog to ask for compliments and gratitude because you weren’t responsible for this particular rape. This is cause for you to STFU and have some compassion and empathy for the women Kyle Payne has hurt.
You misunderstand me. I’m well aware this is a feminist blog, and I haven’t come fishing for compliments. I know I’d never get any. I’m expecting a hostile reception just because of the views I hold, and I indicated as much at the top of my first comment.
What I’m trying to do is understand your world. I’m asking how a sexist but otherwise decent man stacks up (in your view) against a feminist sexual predator. I’m asking this question because I honestly don’t know the answer. The answer to that question won’t tell me everything in the world there is to know, but it might at least help me orient north from south.
I am asking this question here, because this is a feminist blog, and a feminist sexual predator is the topic of discussion. If this isn’t a good place for that sort of answer, I don’t know what is.
My apologies for causing you to vomit.
I refuse to be baited into saying whatever it is that you want me to say. You are obviously intelligent enough to make this “judgment” for yourself, and the only reason you’re still demanding that I compare you with Kyle Payne is that you want validation from a feminist that you can show off to all of your friends and use any time someone calls you out for being a sexist asshole.
For the record:
It is not okay to be a rapist.
It is not okay to be a fake feminist.
It is not okay to be a fake feminist and a rapist.
It is not okay to be a sexist asshole, rapist or not.
All dudes who are against women in any way — sexists, rapists, Christian right wingers, etc. — are the enemy and, as far as I’m concerned, they’re all trash. You all can fight amongst yourselves for the position of King Shit of Trashfuck Mountain for all I care.
I’ll take that answer, thanks. (I’d say more by way of reply, but I get the idea you don’t really want to hear from me. Cheers.)
alamanach is an anti-feminist douchebag. Here’s his blog. What a fucking self-important blowhard. Stay the fuck off my blog, you manipulative asswipe.
There is one significant difference between Kyle and alamanach. Kyle got caught.
You know he feels confirmed every time he sees a woman cow to the enormity of his masculinity. That he should instead feel humiliated by the ill-gotten gains that the patriarchy has produced for him — a world wherein he can never really know if he is liked by a woman, because the word of a slave can never be trusted — probably has never occurred to him.
Alamanach, you and your slave-master ilk can never know love or regard from an equal. You can only know scraping and bowing from women too frightened by the patriarchy to gainsay you. So, in point of fact, none of your so-called conquests are anything more than the result of a society that collectively points a socio-economic gun at women and demands a blowjob.
Nicely done.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Woman.
I don’t eat babies. Where’s my medal?
You’ll get yours as soon as I get mine for not kicking puppies.
Well, first of all, there’s no such thing as a “feminist sexual predator.” Kyle Payne’s just a fake-ass-fake, wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing, garden-variety sexual predator. Raping people entirely negates a guy’s feminist cred.
As far as where you as a non-rapist non-feminist stand in comparison to Payne, I don’t know. Let’s say we put dudes who at least try to have some feminist awareness and recognize that all members of the female half of humanity is just as important and worthy and independently whole as any member of the male half of humanity and that women aren’t put on earth to be servants and sexual stimuli for dudes at point zero. That’s the least that should be expected of a person.
You get some points knocked off your score for not making that effort, so we’ll put you at a negative – hmm, let’s say – four. Payne and all other rapist predators are as far over in the negative as possible, so we give all rapists a negative-ten on this impromptu basic human decency scale I guess.
Payne doesn’t get cool points for pretending to be a feminist ally to garner himself access to real and potential rape victims, and you don’t get cool points for being an anti-feminist who doesn’t rape people.
Fair enough?
When will dickblisters like alamanablahblah ever learn that the way to learn is to SHUT THE HELL UP and LISTEN? Jeez!
“But, I’m not as bad as a rapist, right? RIGHT?” Sigh. What a waste of time.
Well, he doesn’t really want to learn; that’s why he wasn’t shutting up and listening. He wanted me to do something that I wasn’t about to do, and he was going to attempt to coerce me into it one way or another. Listening isn’t coercive, so it’s not one of his strategies.
So annoying.
[...] 4, 2008 by L Mr Kyle Payne has FINALLY posted about the “events” of the summer, “because [we] deserve to [...]
My friend, you have a lot of confederates on both sides of the political spectrum. All of us look dimly on violence of any kind, especially sexual violence. Unfortunately, you do not give us much to go on when you talk about how your insides have been “scooped out” by some random sexual predator that didn’t even touch you. We all hate these scumballs just like you do, and we are on your side. But we are not afraid of them, and we don’t want you to be, either. Either get a gun and defend yourself, or defer to men who will do it for you. Whiny wishes that reality were different do not help this cause in any way. Have a great day.
Whose blog is this again? Yeah, it’s mine. I will write what I want to write about and how I want to write about it. I will not be intimidated by some random dude who’s about six or seven months late to the conversation into keeping my thoughts to myself. If you really want to help women by stopping sexual violence, you will stop being an asshole about how women express themselves in response to events of sexual violence.
And how does blogging about an incident of sexual violence in any way imply that I can’t or won’t defend myself against sexual violence? You’re annoying me, Howard.
[...] here, here, and [...]